Dining across the divide: ‘She objected to people coming to the UK who haven’t been invited’

Benjamin, 39, Watford

Occupation Council worker

Voting record Conservative the first couple of times, but trending more left wing as he’s got older – now it’s Lib Dem or Labour depending on who’s more likely to beat the Tories

Amuse bouche Has been a big fan of professional wrestling since he was five. Now he’s got his girlfriend into it

Joyanna, 70, London

Occupation Consultant legal trainer, podcaster and writer

Voting record Has never voted

Amuse bouche Says she’s the “nearly girl” – she nearly became a beauty queen, a flight attendant, a bunny girl and a Wag

For starters

Benjamin I was impressed that she had managed to get to the restaurant even earlier than me – it was good to meet a fellow over-punctual person, because I was 20 minutes early.

Joyanna I thought he’d be older, because a young guy would call himself Ben. My beloved grandfather was Benjamin.

Benjamin I had smoked eel empanada, and then chicken. It was delicious.

Joyanna We had some of each other’s dessert. I didn’t like mine, but his was lovely.

The big beef

Benjamin From what I could tell, she was very anti-immigration of all kinds. She strongly believes that we should be training people in this country to do the jobs that we need to run the country better. She said her family had come here as part of the Windrush generation because they’d been specifically asked for; that was what the country needed at the time. She objected to people coming to the UK who haven’t been invited.

Joyanna Why can’t British people do the jobs that need to be filled? My feeling is, it’s because they don’t want to. They are not made to want to. The welfare state has a lot to answer for – “You don’t have to work, it’s all right, we can dole you out some money.” I think that’s where it all went wrong.

Benjamin I’m in favour of people from Europe being able to come here. I don’t want people risking their lives on small boats and then being stuck in an asylum centre, not allowed to work or contribute. It doesn’t make sense to keep people in limbo for years. In an ideal world, legal routes for migration should be administered so people don’t have to risk life and limb.

Joyanna Asylum seekers come through different countries before they come here. Why don’t they stop in France? I saw something going through the high court where parents were sending kids over in the knowledge that this country will say, “They must have their parents with them, so we’ll let them in as well.”

Sharing plate

Joyanna We were talking about the Southport murderer, and people calling to bring back the death sentence, which is nonsense to me. We both disagree with the death penalty, and feel a life sentence should mean spending longer than 14 years in prison.

Benjamin The subject of drink-driving came up. I think the sentences for that should be higher; she agreed. I don’t think people should be in prison at all for non-violent, drug-related crimes. I come at it from the point of view: it’s not society’s job to punish people, it’s just to keep others from harm.

For afters

Benjamin She didn’t outright say she didn’t believe in the climate crisis, but was very interested in why I thought climate change was happening. I’m not a scientist, but from all I’ve read, there are climate disasters happening all over the world. As I told her, I can’t say for sure, but I trust the people who say it is happening. She did get me to agree with her that climate activists were potentially counterproductive, turning people against their cause. I see that. But at the same time, if they prove to be right, we’re going to look like idiots for not listening to Cassandra and instead slinging Cassandra in jail.

Joyanna I said I didn’t understand a word of it. I have never understood it. I never understood the ozone layer; I’ve never found anybody who could explain it to me. I don’t understand what humankind is doing to make all this difference. And I suppose the bottom line is, I’m not particularly interested. We’ve always had hurricanes and earthquakes and floods, going back to biblical times.

Takeaways

Benjamin On the walk to the tube, we chatted about pets. We’re both cat people who like dogs.

Joyanna We felt that we’d had our voices and views heard. We thanked each other for the company and parted with a warm handshake.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake