Dining across the divide: ‘If I were queen, I’d abolish the monarchy’

3 hours ago 11

Matilda, 19, Oxfordshire

Occupation Starts a history degree in September

Voting record Conservative at the last election, but is considering the Greens

Amuse bouche Plays the accordion – her mum’s family are Scottish, so it felt like a natural thing to do. Her grandma bought her a gorgeous, glittery accordion to learn on

Tamsin, 36, Oxford

Occupation University researcher, working on food sustainability

Voting record Normally Green, but has voted Labour strategically

Amuse bouche Has four pet rats, all very different: Benvolio is the alpha; Cobweb is into nuts; Orlando is the calmest; and Peaseblossom is just a funny little man

For starters

Matilda Tamsin was so lovely. We were both quite nervous, but within about five minutes I thought, “We’re going to get on really well.”

Tamsin She was friendly and smiley. We were both probably a bit awkward. But she had clearly been thinking about what kind of things she wanted to say.

Matilda Tamsin ordered padron peppers – I’d never had them before, they were really scrummy. Then I had a steak.

Tamsin I just looked for the vegan option and had that: butternut squash, kale and nuts. It was very nice.

The big beef

Matilda I think the royal family as an institution should stay. I’m very patriotic. I really value the concept of the king and queen. Tamsin was of the opinion we could keep the tradition but not have such privileged people in place. I don’t really think that would work.

Tamsin She was very committed to what I would understand as the aesthetic of tradition – my words not hers. She talked about how meaningful it is to have connection with the past, embodied by living people who occupy those roles and continue the traditions with dress and ceremony. Matilda’s identity as a historian was really important to her – I could see how that shaped her feelings about this. If I were queen, I’d abolish the monarchy. But doing it in an undemocratic way wouldn’t make sense, so what I really want is a referendum.

Matilda At the moment, with the Andrew [Mountbatten-Windsor] thing, I think it was right for him to face questioning – nobody’s above the law. It’s made me quite angry, in a way – the fact he was born into such privilege makes the onus more on him to do his duty. But I don’t think this should be used as a catalyst to get rid of the monarchy. That legacy of tradition makes Britain Britain. The idea of abolishing it and just having government is very wrong.

Tamsin We talked quite a bit about Andrew – clearly, he has lived a morally questionable life. For me, if you’re born to enormous wealth and privilege, what a surprise, you go off and push the boundaries. I think, for Matilda, that’s less clear.

Tamsin sitting at a restaurant table chatting and gesticulating

Sharing plate

Matilda We talked about benefits and how much provision the state should give to people. I was for a reduced welfare state. I do think the state should provide for its citizens – I’m not in favour of privatising everything. But in the current situation, where people can earn more money on benefits than being in work, some people are going to take advantage of that.

Tamsin Her view was that the state should be smaller, but it was difficult to pin her down on what she’d cut. Her vision of a better NHS was leaner and more efficient and doing what it should be doing. But I’d argue we’ve spent 10 years seeing whether you can cut your way to efficiency, and the answer is no. The result is chaos and inefficiency.

Matilda and Tamsin sitting at a restaurant table chatting and laughing

For afters

Matilda We are an island of immigrants, and the current conversation about immigration can turn weirdly racist. I don’t understand the reason for that – I’m just in favour of stricter controls.

Tamsin My sense was that she was offended by the image of the system not being able to cope with waves of disorderly people coming across. But she was also very keen to emphasise this wasn’t about race or identity.