Dining across the divide: ‘In France we’d be at each other’s throats, but in the UK you say the most horrible things, smiling’

4 hours ago 8

Caroline, 57, Plymouth

Occupation Professor of developmental psychology

Voting record Caroline, who came to the UK from France in 2005, has voted Labour but might vote Green in future

Amuse bouche She has been trying to learn to read Arabic for 10 years, but still only knows 10 letters

Marcus, 55, Devon

Occupation Company director, previously in the military

Voting record Always Conservative, but is considering Restore Britain next time

Amuse bouche Marcus ran the Bath half marathon dressed as a Playboy bunny to raise money for a good cause

For starters

Marcus We went through backgrounds and potted histories. Caroline is a highly intelligent lady, extremely articulate, particularly given English is not her native language.

Caroline We have children the same age, so we talked about what they’re doing. I was expecting someone who’d go straight into “we need to take back control” but he’s obviously very interested in politics, has informed knowledge, reads from every side.

Marcus I had venison and a glass of red wine. Fantastic place, very good menu.

Caroline I had excellent steak and fries. I was a bit nervous; I think he was too.

A woman and man facing each other across a restaurant table

The big beef

Marcus We talked about flags; it’s unfortunate extremist groups have hijacked flags on lamp-posts to further their own narrative, but forcing their removal plays into their hands. What we should do is have more of it, celebrate a positive national identity, like at a royal wedding or a coronation, when we’ve got flags everywhere.

Caroline Of course there are moments of displayed patriotism, when you win a football match, for example. Then it used to go away, but now it’s rising and the message is not positive. In France the flag is found more, on city halls, etc, but otherwise, like here, when there is a far right demonstration, the flag is there, associated with ultra nationalism, a sign we want this land back, from you.

Marcus In the US there are flags everywhere – it’s not a problem. But here the vacuum created by the shortsightedness of local and central government, which could be filled with a celebration of national identity, has been filled by others’ narratives.

Caroline I avoid businesses with flags. I find them offensive and I take them personally – as a real sign that I, and all others not born here, are not wanted.

Sharing plate

Marcus Although I voted for it, I would agree that Brexit was mishandled.

Caroline We agreed on … what did we agree on? I don’t know. We agreed on liking Totnes. Totnes is a nice place.

For afters

Marcus I am considering voting Restore Britain. We have not managed migration effectively. By allowing immigrants to put their own values ahead of the national ones, you run the risk of undermining them. We should co-exist and respect others, but not appease the extremist elements who wish to put their values ahead of ours. If I was to travel to Riyadh or Beijing or Islamabad, I would not be able to behave in a way those who emigrate from those countries do here.

Caroline I don’t know much about Restore, but it seems to be a lot about immigration. The usual “Who to blame?”, the same throughout Europe, the people who look different, because we need a strong in-group identity and this is an easy way to do that. Nothing good has ever come from far right parties anywhere, so why try again? It’s not going to help the economy to throw people out of the country.

Marcus I’m not calling for mass deportation, unless they break our rule of law, but we’ve got the balance wrong, and if we’re not careful that could have lasting consequences for public services, defence, welfare.

Caroline I’m more worried about the far right in France than here. They make a lot of noise but in the end they are more apathetic, attached to the same things – the monarchy, the pub.

Takeaway

Marcus I really enjoyed it. My views were challenged in a mature and considered way. Where we did have differing views, it was respectful.

Caroline It was super interesting to meet someone who reads the same news as I do but isn’t taking the same meaning from it. And a fantastic cultural thing about the UK is that you can have these discussions without shouting. In France we’d be at each other’s throats, but here you say the most horrible things, smiling.